Female Muslim medics ‘disobey hygiene rules’
Posted by: maldiveshealth on: February 5, 2008
Can this happen in our hospitals?
Muslim medical students are refusing to obey hygiene rules brought in to stop the spread of deadly superbugs, because they say it is against their religion.Women training in several hospitals in England have raised objections to removing their arm coverings in theatre and to rolling up their sleeves when washing their hands, because it is regarded as immodest in Islam.
Universities and NHS trusts fear many more will refuse to co-operate with new Department of Health guidance, introduced this month, which stipulates that all doctors must be “bare below the elbow”.
The measure is deemed necessary to stop the spread of infections such as MRSA and Clostridium difficile, which have killed hundreds.
Minutes of a clinical academics’ meeting at Liverpool University revealed that female Muslim students at Alder Hey children’s hospital had objected to rolling up their sleeves to wear gowns.
Similar concerns have been raised at Leicester University. Minutes from a medical school committee said that “a number of Muslim females had difficulty in complying with the procedures to roll up sleeves to the elbow for appropriate handwashing”.
Sheffield University also reported a case of a Muslim medic who refused to “scrub” as this left her forearms exposed.
Documents from Birmingham University reveal that some students would prefer to quit the course rather than expose their arms, and warn that it could leave trusts open to legal action.
Hygiene experts said last night that no exceptions should be made on religious grounds.
Dr Mark Enright, professor of microbiology at Imperial College London, said: “To wash your hands properly, and reduce the risks of MRSA and C.difficile, you have to be able to wash the whole area around the wrist.
“I don’t think it would be right to make an exemption for people on any grounds. The policy of bare below the elbows has to be applied universally.”
Dr Charles Tannock, a Conservative MEP and former hospital consultant, said: “These students are being trained using taxpayers’ money and they have a duty of care to their patients not to put their health at risk.
“Perhaps these women should not be choosing medicine as a career if they feel unable to abide by the guidelines that everyone else has to follow.”
But the Islamic Medical Association insisted that covering all the body in public, except the face and hands, was a basic tenet of Islam.
“No practising Muslim woman – doctor, medical student, nurse or patient – should be forced to bare her arms below the elbow,” it said.
Dr Majid Katme, the association spokesman, said: “Exposed arms can pick up germs and there is a lot of evidence to suggest skin is safer to the patient if covered. One idea might be to produce long, sterile, disposable gloves which go up to the elbows.”
From the telegraph.
26 Responses to "Female Muslim medics ‘disobey hygiene rules’"
February 5, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Maldiveshealth: Always special pleading isn’t it?
Al Islamiyah: In your fervour, you forget to mention the Greeks from whom the Islamic scholars got much of the knowledge in the first place – which Muslims then furthered. Surely, the Greeks must be credited as the originators and inspiration? And the torch was burning brightly elsewhere by the time the Islamic empire crawled (back) into the dark ages around 1300 CE. The medicine, tools, data and research in use today that is so essential to saving lives and healthy living came from the hard work of a lot of different peoples and countries – which involved little to no Muslim contribution. So please, spare the arrogance…
February 5, 2008 at 1:36 pm
’spare the arrogance’ eyy…look who’s talking!
Al Islamiyah’s link is irrelevent, yes…much can be written about the contribution’s of the greeks or the muslims; n neither can be just as easily dismissed.
As for this baring the arms to scrub, i think it’s a natural reaction to a continent which refuses to recognize the ethnic diversity of its inhabitants/immigrants; this a europe which deems freedom the most supreme of human values, and yet shows no remorse in its attitude of islamophobia. Consider the ban on head scarfs in public schools for muslim girls, the same schools which sikh students also attend. From that to a taliban which ‘enforces’ the scarf- can we say either is the lesser of two evils??
And medically speaking, it would not be beyond our capacity to devise methods of pre-op asespsis, without having to bare the arms, if we so choose to recognize and accept the beliefs and values of those who choose to refrain baring their arms so.
This is not a question of whether the tenants which these medics stand by are in fact codified by Islam or nor, or whether the tenets themselves are stupid or not, but of that same fundamental right that they have to be different!
Personally i think these medics are a bunch of hotheads who are making a fuss over nothing; but then again, they need to be heard and their wishes respected, before we once again jump on the Hate_Islam Train.
February 5, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Please note that useless comments will not be tolerated here on as i have been forced to enforce comment moderation. Recently i have noticed that a certain person has been abusing my space. I request not to do that. Comments which i feel is of no use to the cause which this blog was created will be deleted.
February 5, 2008 at 3:32 pm
That som people find it amusing to tail me like vultures, is amusing to me as well.
February 5, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Isn’t it even safer for medical staff to be strip naked and wash their whole bodies?. But we all are bound by our own moral ethics and for one limiting technique there will be other compensating techniques. And what’s the point of this blog anyway?. Maldives Health and spreading Islamophobia goes on hand with hand?.
February 5, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Sama,
Why the accusation of Islamophobia ?
What do you mean by “Islamophobia “?
A phobia is an unfounded irrational fear.
Maybe Muslims must ask what prompts this “phobia” in the first place, whether it is rational, or irrational.
When we examine the worldwide atrocities perpetrated daily in the name of Islam, it is vital to question if Muslims should lay the blame on others for “Islamophobia” or if they should first look hard at themselves.
It is well past time that Muslims cease using the charge of “Islamophobia” as a tool to intimidate and blackmail those who speak up against those who rightly criticize some Islamic practices and preachings. Instead, Muslims must engage in honest and humble introspection.
February 5, 2008 at 9:35 pm
This can happen in Maldives and it probably wouldn’t change much. Patients will die mysteriously and no one will give a damn.
But the article is talking about the United Kingdom, so. This is a classic example of Muslims abusing Western “rights” when in much of the Muslim world people live in deplorable conditions with barely any rights and freedoms enjoyed by the West. Then they go prancing around shouting for special treatment?!
First of all, if Muslims are to be given special treatment because of their faith – especially in a medical situation – then the Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster too can claim something even more stupid and no one will be the wiser. They will have to consider and respect the rights of the Pastafarian Dr. as well.
Muslims should leave religion at home when they attend century old establishments of scientific progress – especially in free and democratic societies such as the UK where so much has been accomplished for the benefit of humanity BECAUSE of these freedoms. If they want special treatment then they should perhaps go to Pakistan, Indonesia or Bangladesh where they can pick their nose and do a brain surgery without washing and no one will lift an eyebrow – or even if they did no one will be persecuted!
Imagine how hot the blood of the English will run, whose culture, technology and freedoms these people are abusing for their own silly demands!
I’ve never heard of this kind of thing before. Previously there were the supermarket checkout clerks who didn’t want to handle alcohol, then there was the dentist who wouldn’t treat an unscarfed woman..then there were the male doctors who wouldn’t treat female patients! Muslims truly are going down the path towards the medieval times.
Muslims mixing religion and science has made them stagnant, useless and ignorant ever since the fall of the so-called golden age and with this kind of demands they want to take the Europe that has transcended the age of Enlightenment with flying colours and push it down to the darkness of 7th century Arabia.
Of course, there will be fuming replies to this comment…I wish Muslims did something to make themselves and others proud instead of letting out hot-gas…like find the cure for a disease, or contribute to science. But NOOO, remember, they are too busy with religion.
Shameless plug: The state of the Muslim world. Sorry Maldiveshealth..and for the long comment too.
February 5, 2008 at 10:22 pm
If Homo’s can have rights, then yeah, if women can dress in revealing clothes, then yeah, so should a Muslim woman be allowed to dress modestly!
FSM’s??….u fokin xenodogs; u think a faith with a following of a billion should have no voice?- be it moslem or hindu or wotvere..shud hv no rights?, becos it is the “English whose culture, technology and freedoms” we are living off??
U think ‘England’ is only white caucasians?….Pathetic little Geek Club aren’t you- fighting for englands right to be english. Hey! u guys shud be english then!!! David Duke wud be proud of u guys
“free and democratic societies such as the UK where so much has been accomplished for the benefit of humanity BECAUSE of these freedoms” LOL…sigh
What we have here is a very distinguished elite club(or so they think), who have discovered the internet, who wipe their royal arses with toilet paper, n dream of Heineken and strip joints.
and what makes u think wot ur bellowing out is not ‘hot gas’…think very highly of urself don’t u?
amayaai! wot is it that u hav been contributing as an athiest/ or wotever u are?…or have u been living off the ‘english n their modern marvels’ too- but atleast ur thankful to them…
Yes, you will receive responses; do not think only you people have a right to opinion! this is not over.
February 6, 2008 at 1:20 am
well, what do we have here?..to think that I had received a call from half way around the world when Simon posted ‘the link’ : ). Shameless plug indeed.
It looks like the cavalry has been summoned. One need not think very hard to derive the possible chain of events that ‘K’ud have culminated in this. unfortunate.
As for this article, I would have to agree with ‘testicle’- once again a literal interpretation has blown a triviality out of proportion. And given you guys a premature ejac.(pun intended)
Simon, A Bangladeshi doctor does not pick his nose because he is from Bangladesh or because he is a Moslem or because the hospital infrastructure is poor etc. Please don’t generalize and insult everyone and everything third-world in the process. I see you have not tuned down one bit as far as your white supremacist aspirations go.
Unfortunately or fortunately, we are on the same boat- I agree that we are partly to blame for the sorry state of our affairs. But i think our little discussion on the link you’ve provided, between me and ‘ShariaNeedsReform’ demonstrates that things aren’t as one dimensional as you would like them to be. I know, that now you are aware of this as well.
And I do share the concerns of Nasheed (your handler), when he says “people have started importing goats because the Prophet had goats,”; the threat of talibanization of the countryside is real. The dogs therefore need to be, and have been set loose.
As for ‘Dhivehistan’. The only reason I tolerate this Christian is because he can operate only within a set parameter. He is merely a critique of those who claim to be practicing this “true Islam/Sharia” in which I find much objection. And as far as his faith goes, it would be an easy matter to bring to its knees; the BIBLE is just begging for it. Besides, there are enough people working towards that goal, if I’m not mistaken.
And for the record, once again and henceforth, kindly refrain from assuming its ‘me’ whenever somebody writes something disputing any of you. I can already see the bread crumbs being laid. Do not insult my intelligence.
thanx.
February 6, 2008 at 2:33 am
Dr.Freex (whoever you are)
As for your “tolerating” – hey – you do not own Blogger. There is nothing you can do to the blog even if you decided not to “tolerate”.
Use your brain.
Who are you referring to as “this Christian”?
February 6, 2008 at 4:05 am
Maalee,
This is not about allowing or disallowing Muslim women to dress modestly…haven’t you read the Telegraph article? This is about refusal to follow standard required medical procedure. Tell me who are Muslims to demand any special change of procedure just for them?
Look, don’t fool yourself. If the vast manjority of doctors in the world came from the billion or so Muslims and a huge percentage of them were women and they held fundamental “literal interpretation” beliefs then special provisions for their demands maybe justified on the grounds of their expertise.
But is that the case?
Yes, a faith with a billion has its voice but making stupid demands for special consideration where everything is standardised is not about respecting the rights of all religions…it is just uniquely Muslim to do that…to want to stand out like the bully in a primary school.
And Maalee, I AM blowing hotgas. That’s what I do.
And my dear fellow, this is not ME against the 1.2 billion Muslims for you to ask me what I have been contributing. Typical Maldivian mentality you have (even if you may not be)!
Dr. Freex,
What on earth are you talking about, lad? Are you having a sugar rush or something? What has Dhivehistan got to do with this discussion?
And to the rest of you…
Here’s what I don’t see: Muslim outrage at Muslim behaviour like this (and by “this” I am referring to the Telegraph article *sigh*) tainting the image of the religion. I have yet to find ONE article written by concerned Muslims on the mvBlogosphere about the “sorry state of affairs” of Muslims.
Here, read what a concerned Muslim has to say about state of democracy in the Muslim world.
February 6, 2008 at 4:18 am
the “compensating technique” for these muslim “doctors” would be to go back to their Muslim country and practice unhygienic medicine on other “Believers”.
What next? Imperialist Muslim doctors will demand to prescribe camel urine to patients in Britain? hahaha
February 6, 2008 at 4:26 am
The reason why i posted the article is because i have seen many nurses who follow the religion of Islam refusing to care for patients in the name of religion.
February 6, 2008 at 8:37 am
If authorities had handfuls of standards to accommodate the moral perspectives and whims of all available religions the state of affairs will be extremely sorry.
Perhaps this is also a Jewish conspiracy to denude Muslim women.
February 6, 2008 at 10:27 am
hehehe “ouch” ?….NO NO! Clearly all western media outlets are unbiased by default; and clearly the majority of them are Not owned by Jews or Jewish interest groups! No NO, Clearly media propaganda and PR firms and Spin doctors, these are all myths, urban legends.
The only reality is that moslems are hell bent on rocking the western world because they are ‘free’, they like to blow up other people for the sheer heck of it. Clearly ur wrong ’sujau’
February 6, 2008 at 9:28 pm
“The reason why i posted the article is because i have seen many nurses who follow the religion of Islam refusing to care for patients in the name of religion.”-maldiveshealth
Are you sure you’ve seen them refusing to care in the name of religion? thats a strong allegation against a massive community!
February 7, 2008 at 3:44 am
Where’s the allegation in that statement? It’s an observation.
“i have seen many nurses who follow the religion of Islam refusing to care for patients in the name of religion”
February 7, 2008 at 4:49 am
?…That ’statement’ amounts to an ‘allegation’…wot a load of bull.
Rwe to beliv that this Islam is so antisocial, so sadistic that ‘care’ is refused to patients in its name?
How low can one sink.
February 7, 2008 at 5:04 am
Yes Yasiph. Refusing to care. That is what many are doing and the numbers seem to be increasing too.
February 7, 2008 at 12:25 pm
As somone who has worked in the health sector in this country for more than 2decades, I can tell you this refusal to care is not rampant as is being suggested. I do not understand what is being implied here when it is said that many nurses who follow the religion of Islam refuse to care for patients on that basis. ??
Islam is about peace, compassion, and love for the majority of its followers; from which we take great pride and derive much inspiration in caring for the sick and needy.
thank you
February 8, 2008 at 12:57 pm
“Islam is about peace, compassion, and love for the majority of its followers”
what a selfish religion. in my travels across the world i have seen ppl of other religions demonstrate these virtues better than muslims. i have found muslims obnoxious and arrogant
February 9, 2008 at 6:14 am
We are told that those who differ from us on a few things are different from us on all things; that our problems are the fault of those who don’t think like us or look like us or come from where we do. The believer condemns the non-believer as immoral, and the nonbeliever chides the believer as intolerant.
February 9, 2008 at 5:52 pm
so what are muslims exactly? please give me examples of good muslims so that i may learn.
March 2, 2008 at 12:24 am
I have not been following this issue closely, but from what I heard the baring below the elbow bit is not mandated. It is just a suggestion there has not been any conclusive evidence from microbiologists that suggests baring one’s arms decreases the risk of contamination. It is now up to the individual hospitals and affected parties to conduct an impact accessment to determine how best to implement it.
There was a case of a Muslim radiologist who was fired after she refused to bare her elbows. But after an open dialogue with her superiors, and after demonstrating to them the method she washes her hands, they were satisfied that she could maintain satisfactory hygiene without endangering the patient while her hands remained covered.
Every situation is different, rather than those students quiting or their employees firing them, they should all sit down and talk. If the status quo can be maintained via other alternatives, such as disposable sleeves, there need not be compromise on either side. All they need to do is talk.
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February 5, 2008 at 10:27 am
Islam founded medicine as we see it in the west.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/331/7531/1486